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Add a Jackson Camp Trail thread in the Trail Reports Forum

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Re: Add a Jackson Camp Trail thread in the Trail Reports For

Postby Jim Ringland on Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:05 pm

Thank you!
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Re: Add a Jackson Camp Trail thread in the Trail Reports For

Postby Betsy M on Wed Aug 13, 2014 8:49 pm

There is now a separate Jackson Camp Trail thread. Thank you to Mike Splain for getting this done! We moved the last two reports which seemed to address the Jackson Camp Trail.
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Re: Add a Jackson Camp Trail thread in the Trail Reports For

Postby jack_glendening on Mon Aug 04, 2014 10:29 am

Jim

I'll add that there are some strange things in the USFS database and should Mike not be able to get some of them changed there is a question (in my mind, at least) as to whether the VWA and/or I would want to fully conform to the USFS database.

For example, currently there there is no such thing as a "Vicente Flat Trail" in the USFS database. The USFS calls the route from Hwy 1 north to Vicente Flat the "Kirk Creek Trail" and from there north to Cone Peak Road the "Stone Ridge Trail". Mike would like to get the latter (but not the former) changed to "Vicente Flat Trail". Also the USFS considers the segment from Goat Camp to Ojito Saddle to be the "Gamboa Trail" whereas everyone else considers it part of the Stone Ridge Trail. [The Gamboa Trail once extended further west than it does now, to Hwy 1, but not via Goat Camp.] Mike also wants to get that changed. But should those remain unchanged, is the VWA and/or I forced to follow such naming when it seems illogical and does not follow current in-use naming?

For that matter, I personally have a problem with the name "Kirk Creek Trail" since that trail does _not_ follow the Kirk Creek drainage, unlike every other "Creek"-named trail. If everyone else wants to call it the "Kirk Creek Trail" then I will follow suit, especially as that is how it appears on the Nat.Geo. & GreenTrails printed maps because that it what it is in the USFS database (but not on the WildernessPress one) - but it grates on me as being misleading. The sign currently along Hwy 1 says "Vicente Flat Trail" and most people seem to call that segment by that name. But Mike says there are plans to replace that sign with one having its official "Kirk Creek Trail" name.

Jack
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Re: Add a Jackson Camp Trail thread in the Trail Reports For

Postby Jim Ringland on Mon Aug 04, 2014 9:18 am

Jack,

Sounds good. And is there anything Mike Heard doesn't do?

Jim
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Re: Add a Jackson Camp Trail thread in the Trail Reports For

Postby jack_glendening on Mon Aug 04, 2014 1:45 am

Jim

The reason why "Jackson Camp Trail" appears on many maps (including mine) is that is what the USFS calls that segment in their current database. I don't know the history behind the VWA Trail Reports not having have a forum for that trail - people making reports for it have been using the "Little Sur Trail". FYI we plan to revise the VWA Trail Reports to be consistent with the USFS database, but that requires first making the USFS database consistent within itself, which Mike Heard is working on - unfortunately it now has many inaccuracies. (There will never be full consistency because the current signage is inconsistent.) The VWA forums will then be revised to agree with that. (And then I will revise my Big Sur Trailmap to agree with those.)

Jack
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Add a Jackson Camp Trail thread in the Trail Reports Forum

Postby Jim Ringland on Sun Aug 03, 2014 10:12 pm

I guess this belongs here as a forum feature request. If not, I invite the editor to move it as appropriate.

I'd like to suggest the forum editor add a Jackson Camp Trail entry to the Trail Reports > Ventana Wilderness Trails forum ... perhaps under the name “Jackson Camp Trail (Little Sur River)” or some such.

The forum editor has flagged my and other Little Sur Trail reports for the section between the junction above the scout camp and Jackson Camp as really being for the Jackson Camp Trail. Having looked around a bit, that seems reasonable. Most maps -- Dr. Jack’s, National Geographic’s, the one on the homepage here, and the one in the Fall 2013 newsletter -- use the name "Jackson Camp Trail". The Sierra Club Guides reference the "Jackson Camp Trail". But what is a trail reporter to do when there is no entry in the Trail Reports forum for the Jackson Camp Trail?

Here, as in a few other cases, there is some ambiguity. Two sources I've found do call that section a part of the Little Sur Trail: Schaffer’s 1987 book, and, for better or worse, the sign that's actually on the trail. (Click the attached picture of that wonderful only-in-Ventana sign for a expanded version that's more legible.)

Adding to the trail list and moving a few entries seems to me to be the most effective way to deal with the ambiguity in a way that makes it easy for somebody new (or for somebody who knows one name but not the other) to find information if Fish Camp, Jackson Camp, or points beyond are their destination. Moreover, fixing the forum seems the more friendly approach compared to putting correction notes inside trail reports ... notes, which, I’ll admit, I read initially as vaguely negative statements that I and others had entered our reports incorrectly. (And yes, I know they weren't meant that way.)

Jim Ringland
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